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3.7 million Stolen Votes !

700,000+ Votes Stolen From British In The EU

2.1 million then under 18 have had no vote
1.5 million mostly leavers since dead.

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coin 50p commemorative coin - graphic joke
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corrections Corrections
costs Costs of dual citizenship, passports, IDs. language & citizen knowledge tests, certified translations of documents etc.
crowd Crowd Funding
dates dates
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disfranchisement EU report on Disfranchisement of EU citizens resident abroad.
draft_petition Repeal the 15 year non resident exclusion
dual EU & German dual citizenship
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many 700,000+ Stolen Votes in EU
millions Britain Dis-franchised 3.7 million globally - Stealing votes is worse than drowning votes in gerrymandering ( Wiki)
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money Brexit lies & media funding ? Follow the money !
mp Write Your MP (Or a Lord): New Referendum Fast, Please !
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neweuropeans_net Votes for Life Petition - deadline
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No Taxation Without Representation - 1750 to now.
odds Odds - Unsorted inc. Revolt An Option ?
petitions Petitions to Parliament & Queen New Referendum, EU Citizenship Stolen Votes, etc
pictures pictures
Letter to President of Bavaria, Herr Seehofer
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register_min No minimum period to register as an elector in UK
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split UDI ? Split UK ? ( SNP wants to. - London Too ?)
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No Taxation Without Representation - 1750 to now.
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unsorted_links unsorted links, to be moved
unsorted_text unsorted text, to be moved
visa Tourist & Residence Visas in Germany & EU
wiki_disenfranchisement wiki_disenfranchisement
wiki_disfranchisement wiki_disfranchisement
wiki_suborned wiki_suborned
2017-03-29 UK PM served Article 50 Notice on European Union
posters Posters
queen Petition Letter to the Queen


1985 right to vote to Brits abroad for 5 years
1989 Extended to 20 Years
2000 Reduced to 15 years
2011-01-22 Eire even worse than UK !
2013-05-07 Shindler v. the United Kingdom
2016 Un-Democratic Brexit referendum.
2016-01-18 expats registered in referendum
2016-02-01 Spoken Contributions by John Penrose
2016-02-25 fullfact . org eu - membership - fee - 55 - million
2016-02-26 Overseas Voters Bill - Commons Chamber 3 or 4 Million
2016-05-09 Invitation to 2016-05-09 - 2nd Munich Meeting
2016-05-09_summary Summary of 2016-05-09
2016-05-09_after After 2016-05-09 After 2nd Munich Meeting
2016-05-11 Chris Grayling, Leader of the House Common, to Select Committee
2016-06-23 First Brexit Referendum
2016-07-11 Statement: the status of EU nationals in the UK.
2016-09-05 Mail List brexit@ Started. Same day as Westminster Hall Petition Debate Day
2016-10-07 Guardian : Britons who have settled overseas permanently are to be given a "vote for life"
2016-11-02 3.7 million + continued votes for Eire & commonwealth citizens resident in the UK
2016-11-03 court defeat for UK government
2016-12-09 guy - verhofstadt - chief - negotiator - opt - in - passports
2016-12-31 EU members net contributions and net funding 2016 12
2017-01-11 European Union: European Free Movement Instrument Registered, Reg no: ECI(2017)000001
2017-01-18 retired - britons - eu - return - campaigners - pensioners - spain - healthcare
2017-02-02 Alternative White Paper
2017-02-22 Healthcare - anguish - for - expat - retirees
2017-02-27 bbc . com "The Brits hurrying to become German citizens"
2017-03-01 Government defeated on Brexit bill
2017-03-02 rights - of - uk - citizens - in - the - eu - brexit - podcast
2017-03-13 Commons Reject Both Lords Amendments
2017-03-14 Post to
2017-03-14-2 Lancashire veers sharply from Leave to Remain
2017-03-23 Votes for Life Bill
2017-03-26 No minimum period to register as an elector
2017-03-27 Brexit Countdown Event, 27 March, Central Munich
2017-03-29 UK PM served Article 50 Notice on European Union
2017-03-30 bbc . com / news / uk - 39439993
2017-04-03 Munich, Monday 2nd quasi repeat meeting
2017-04-05 Statement by Michel Barnier
2017-04-07 FT: Brexit threat to UK space industry
2017-04-08 European Parliament's chief Brexit negotiator demands Theresa May back Britons who want to keep EU citizenship
2017-04-09 expats will NOT get a vote in EU referendum
2017-04-13 FT threat to UK space industry as Brussels re-drafts Galileo contracts
2017-04-18 General election in UK
2017-04-21 UK Government Will Again Steal General Election Votes From Brits Abroad
2017-05-02 Votes for Life Petition
2017-05-03 Brussels, Press release
2017-05-04 English local elections
2017-05-08 Munich Stammtisch
2017-05-11 Express: "French barrister launches bid to prove UK's EU referendum was illegal" +
Guardian: : "The Brexit trap that's closing on Britons who live in Europe"
2017-05-30 Why citizenship is now a commodity
2017-06-02 EU announces "Roam Like Home"
2017-06-05 Close of General Election
2017-06-08 General election in UK
2017-06-09 dup - conservatives
2017-06-13 Record number of Brits become German citizens amid Brexit fears
2017-06-19 Petition Letter to the Queen First public draft
2017-06-20 Possibilities for keeping EU citizenship after leaving EU
2017-06-25 Guardian: "Brexit will cement disenfranchisement of millions of citizens"
2017-06-26 Spin & hot air from the government that stole our votes
2017-07-03 Questions & Answers with Consul
2017-07-09 background - uk - eu - referendum - 2016
2017-07-10 Rebel MPs form cross party group to oppose hard brexit
2017-07-26 David Davis (Brexit minister) in Munich -- Demonstration
2017-07-27 After David Davis in Munich
2017-07-31 Letter to President of Bavaria, Herr Seehofer
2017-08-07 Petition Letter to the Queen shown to British in Munich, feedback incorporated
2017-08-11 BBC: Why is the pound so low against the euro?
2017-08-15 Former David Davis aide James Chapman announces new pro-EU party
2017-08-18 Reply from Herr Stefan Schumann, Ministerialrat
2017-08-23 Pound hits eight-year low against euro
2017-09-03 Various Brexified Brits, votes stolen by the UK, attended a Munich meeting of The The Pulse Of Europe
2017-09-04 Munich Brexit Beer Garden 18:00 Onward
2017-09-13 Deutsche Welle: Brexit in Germany:
2017-09-29 BBC: Brexit: Are more British nationals applying for dual nationality in the EU?
2017-11-02 Bloomberg: "U.K. Probes Russian Social Media Influence in Brexit Vote"
2017-11-15 Guardian: Intelligence watchdog urged to look at Russian influence on Brexit vote
2017-12-04 Mayor of London: "... a similar deal here could protect tens of thousands of jobs."
2017-12-06 BBC "electoral system at risk, the head of the elections watchdog has warned"
2017-12-09 BBC Radio 4, Any Answers : "They Stole Our Votes ! We Want A 2nd Referendum - A First Democratic Referendum!" Audio clip.
2017-12-11 Guardian 'Sacrificed on the altar of trade': Britons in EU feel betrayed by Brexit deal
2017-12-13 Congrats & Thanks to Conservative 12
2017-12-14 Commons + EU + Lords
2017-12-14-3 Meeting Notes/ Summary
2017-12-20 PM May pushed, agrees flexible Leave date
2017-12-23 Brexiteers Suborn Wikipedia, deleted 3,700,000 dis-franchised Votes & Hansard ref. from results lists.
2017-12-29 Lord Adonis, government's infrastructure adviser, resign
2018-01-11 Meeting with Maria Noichl, SPD Member of European Parliament
2018-01-13 tax_havens Mail list post expanding to a new page
2018-01-26 47% of people would favour having a final say on Brexit once the terms of the UK's departure are known, while 34% oppose reopening the question"
2018-02-07 British expats urge Dutch court to protect rights after Brexit -
2018-02-08 Pro-EU campaign secures £400,000 from George Soros
2018-02-22 Cabinet Office - Votes For Life.pdf
2018-02-27 British meet Consul
2018-03-03 search of UK gov petitions which need support,
2018-03-04 British in Germany inaugural newsletter
2018-05-23 Brexit 'is obvious reason' for surge in Britons becoming Germans
2018-06-04 2018-06-04 : "Cambridge Analytica whistleblower calls for second referendum as he tells MEPs data scandal 'caused Brexit'"
2018-06-15 Theresa's Fudge
2018-06-21 EU (Withdrawal) Bill goes for royal assent
2018-06-23 Demonstrations London & Munich etc.
2018-06-25 nigel Farage brexit hedge funds short pound/
2018-06-30 Surge in Britons getting EU nationality
2018-07-03 "Vote Leave broke electoral law, .. expected
2018-07-17 Electoral Commission reports Vote Leave broke the law
2018-07-24 no - deal - brexit - poorer - jacob - rees - mogg - dividend
2018-07-28 fake news, Facebook and Brexit - Commons select committee
2018-09-14 judges agree - the vote for Brexit was clearly tainted
2018-09-20 Forbes: Exit Brexit - World Economies
2018-10-20 People's Vote march
2018-11-05 on Guy Fawkes Night
2018-11-13 Attorney General to PM on Northern_Ireland
2018-11-15 2 more ministers resign.
2018-11-26 British In Bavaria Munich Stammtisch
2018-11-27 2 Letters: 1st to MP Greg Clark (Con, T Wells) & 1st to MP Rosie Duffield (Lab, Canterbury)
2018-11-28 SZ report of 2018-11-26 British In Bavaria Munich Stammtisch
2018-11-30 A scathing letter to Theresa May's deal has gone viral.
2018-12-03 Attorney General to Speaker
2018-12-04 Article 50: Law officer says UK can cancel leaving EU
Government loses 3 votes in the Commons
2018-12-05 Brexiteers down to 38% in YouGov Poll
2018-12-07 3 News items
2018-12-08 2nd Letter to MP Greg Clark
2018-12-10 UK can cancel decision, EU court says
2018-12-11 Parliament due to vote on May's deal.
2018-12-12 20 meetings of British across Germany
2018-12-13 "Theresa May won't lead Conservatives into next election" & rushes off to Brussels.
2018-12-14 2 Jokes
2018-12-17 BBC: "Russia 'meddled in all big social media' around US 2016 election"
2018-12-18 3,500 troops ready
2018-12-19 'Horrified' firms warn time is running out
2018-12-25 Xmas Prediction
2019-01-01 Anti Tax Havens, EU Directive
2019-01-03 Brexit freight ferry firm appears all geared up - to deliver pizzas
2019-01-09 Debate preceeding "Meaningful vote" starts.
2019-01-11 Letter to MP Greg Clark
2019-01-14 Munich meeting with Consul
2019-01-15 May's Deal Rejected
2019-01-21 Government has to present new plans to the Commons
2019-01-23 Letters to 3 MPs +
People's Vote" launched People's Voice Questionnaire
2019-01-24 Airbus warns of a no deal brexit
2019-01-25 Queen in Blue hats + Yellow dots, like EU flag
+ Was to have been Overseas Electors Bill Reports stage, seems to have slipped
2019-02-03 Pulse of Europe rally - EU & UK flags
2019-03-03 Pulse Of Europe Rally
2019-03-15 Petition to Queen sent from Munich
2019-03-18 House of Commons Speakers Statement summary: No repeat "Meaningful vote", waste of time.
2019-03-19 No-deal Brexit: UK to pay some health costs of retired Britons in EU
PM May asks for extension, More election fines on Brexiteers
2019-03-20 Barnier tells May she must offer 'something new'
2019-03-22 Overseas Voters Bill
2019-03-23 Demo in London #PeoplesVote Referendum
2019-03-29 Doomsday 23:00. Was Extended
2019-04-01 May Day = Fools Day
2019-04-04 House of Commons rises
2019-04-12 Doomsday #2
2019-04-23 House of Commons returns
2019-05-17 Meeting in Munich
2019-05-19 Demo in Munich Pro EU - Before EU Elections
2019-07-20 London March
2019-10-31 Doomsday #3
2020-12-31 EU wants: transitional arrangements should not last beyond 31 December 2020.

Corrections Welcome

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Brexit Margin Fraudulent - First Referendum Un-democratic !

A Brexit lie: "We all had our vote & must now live with it!"
But most impacted Brits in the EU had NO VOTES!
The government lie: "Democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3, line 1.
But UK steals the right to vote from Brits abroad after 15 years.
More than 110 countries allow passport holders living abroad to vote
UK is second Worst of EU's 28 countries for depriving citizens votes abroad.

Brexit lies & media funding : Follow the money !


Britain stole the vote from 700,000+ of 2,000,000 British in EU -
Dis-franchised: 3.7 million globally : Gerrymandering ( Wiki)

You'd expect British residents abroad in EU over 15 years should be well informed on UK, EU, & Brexit, & worthy of a vote ?
UK instead steals our right to vote, dis-franchises us!
As excuse, UK mis-appropriated as precedent, the 15 year limit for UK local internal general election suffrage.
UK ignores that many British long term ex-pats in EU would be increasingly Better informed about EU, than many UK citizens who've just stayed home in UK, traded with EU, or holiday-ed in EU.
UK dis-franchises some of its most informed & affected citizens!
UK hypocrisy cheats:
  • The UK, resident in the EU longer than 15 years, asserts its right to vote on Brexit
  • Yet UK stole the same right to vote on Brexit, from UK citizens equally resident in the EU longer than 15 years.
Petition The Queen : Votes for Life

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  Statistics, Demographics, Young voters

    No Taxation Without Representation 1750 and Now

  • Political solutions within UK
    • Contact MPs:
      • The changing sentiment in the country, the narrow original percentage vote difference has narrowed, flipped or nearing yet ?
      • Ex pat votes were gerrymandered/ stolen.
      • The enormity & longevity of issues, compared with trivial repetitive 5 year General Elections.
      • Remind MPs of the old adage: "It's the economy, Stupid!" Where will UK be as the Pound continues to dive faster after Brexit ? Parliament need to think longer term for UK, than fickle pendulum voters in ballot booths giving government a kick.
    • London & Scotland & sensible MPs could & should
      • Force non party whipped, free individual conscience non party votes in Commons & Lords (Brexit issues are Not conventional left/right UK party politics, it's an abuse of the whip using it to bolster May's Hard Brexit).
      • Force government to give ex pats votes.
      • Force a referendum on negotiated terms, after terms are negotiated & published.
    • Petition the Queen : Votes for Life

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RESULTS of Referendum: Narrow decision to leave EU

bbc . co . uk / news / politics / eu_referendum / results
Leave 17,410,742 Votes 51.9%
Remain 16,141,241 Votes 48.1%
Difference 1,269,501
British in EU, Denied A Vote Between 700,000+ to 2,000,000
British globally, Denied A Vote 3.7 MILLION!

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Find & Email Your MP, or if abroad Any MP

  • Essential Prefix To MPs: "My post code is:___,"
    • Emails to MPs have to have "your" postcode (or more accurately: some postcode that is within the MPs constituency) else filters in Parliament discard the mail, (and maybe also at or constituency or party office ).
    • If you've been out from UK over 15 years & Parliament has stolen your right to vote & your MP, Don't let it stop you writing & receiving replies from MPs, which others out over 15 years have already proved Can be done.
    • Just look up an MP that you think could represent you, & read & use their postcode from their parliament or constituency web sites, or to be a bit more clever, find an adjacent property in constituency using a map server, or
    • Or better: use a friends, relatives, or colleagues address, someone who can forward (maybe by scan & email) paper mail, as some MPs answer by email, but some, or maybe their parties just send standard replies by paper snail mail.
  • Suggestion: What To Write:
  • How Many ? How Often ?
    • As Parliament stole Brits Abroad's votes & silenced Brits Abroad for years, & they've only just realised how to make themselves heard, & as Brexit will hit Brits resident in the EU harder than Brits resident in the UK, threatening residence & work permits, health cover etc...
    • You could make up for past abuses & lost time:
    • You could decide to write more than one MP, eg place you were last on electoral roll, & place where you now most identify, etc.
    • Some write regularly.
  • You could copy what you send to brexit@ mail list so others can be inspired to send similar.


See Also: List of contacts for letter writing campaign.

July 2016 & Beyond

  • The post Referendum political chaos { inc. Conservative & Labour resignations, challenge from Scotland, legal moves to ensure a prime minister can't just implement Brexit without parliament (Mischcon), half baked ignorant statements ignoring individual civil rights embedded in treaties beyond mere EU, etc} Creates time & space through to the Autumn & beyond, to think deeper, & better consider all aspects of a possible Brexit, rather than stupidly take the narrow Referendum margin as knee jerk authorisation to leave.
  • It was infuriating to listen to radio in UK for days after Referendum, to repeatedly hear lots in ignorance say
  • "We've all had a chance to vote, now we must implement it" IT'S A LIE ! We did Not _All_ have a chance to vote !!
  • BRITAIN STOLE OUR VOTES : Author is a British citizen, was physically in UK (Kent) on the day & not eligible to register or vote
  • It would be irresponsible to push Brexit through without serious House Of Commons & Lords multi readings & debate.
  • Some in UK who voted Leave EU really just intended a kick or warning to the EU Brussels bureaucracy, some probably didn't expect a majority with immediate consequences. Even many who voted Remain In EU also consider the Brussels bureaucracy overpaid, bloated, forcing ever more regulations on us too fast, annoying almost all members with their wide interference. Bloat worsened by speaking every language in the EU, with costs of interpreters & translators, delays & mis-understanding. Even wasting a 1/4 of their time each month in Strasbourg. Many citizens of the EU outside the UK also think we need a looser Europe with flexibility, moving slower together, not forced fast by overpaid EU bureaucrats driving their own agenda of grand visions.
  • Author expects UK economy & house prices will soften & drop in autumn 2016, when politicians return from holiday & the disaster progressively starts to unravel.
    • Business likes stability & a predictable future market. Brexit will produce a lot of market disruption & more scares as it unfolds. Building new alternative trade agreements & finding customers outside EU will take years.
    • Whether investing in new production lines, or lubricating foreign palms to place "invisible export" contracts in UK, etc, It takes time to recoup investments. More reason for a bust than a boom.
    • Bankers in London fear for jobs. France & Germany will make bids yet again to shoulder out the London finance market.
    • Would an EU citizen buy a house in London today ? With some idiot UK politicians saying existing EU people in UK might have to go home ? Half a million French in London author recalls ? Maybe same again for Poles ? Whatever the numbers are, won't be good for London & SE property market
    • A bad time to `invest' in UK property. (Except perhaps not a bad time for buyers with Euros or dollars as pound is worth a lot less ).
    • Some in UK will start trying to drive harder bargains courtesy of Brexit fears.
    • Britain in 20 years might or not do better outside EU, but short term next year or 2, UK will do worse, The disaster of Brexit will take time to unfold. (When West Germany damaged its economy acquiring East Germany, it was a 20+ year long financial disaster (though benefited NATO)).
  • Message as sent 2016-07-19 18:31 CEST" to Ian Blackford MP, SNP who will open debate on the Petition. (Others might like to send similar to other MPs)
    Brexit: Westminster Hall 2016-09-05 16:30. UK stole 700,000+ votes from British in EU.
    Dear Mr Ian Blackford
    Julian H. Stacey <>
    +49 89 ........ (Germany, happy to call back, flat rate to UK land lines)
  • 2013-05-07 Shindler v. the United Kingdom, - Application no. 19840/09 - European Court of Human Rights - Re general election of 5 May 2010 - no violation of Article 3 of Protocol No. 1 to the Convention
  • www . echr . coe . int / Documents / Guide_Art_3_Protocol_1_ENG . pdf Page 10 of 30 Right of citizens residing abroad to vote
    Guide on Article 3 of Protocol No. 1 - Right to free elections

    31. In a series of cases beginning in 1961, the Commission declared inadmissible, as manifestly ill- founded , complaints about restrictions on voting rights based on a residence criterion (see the Commission decisions : X. and Others v. Belgium ; X. v. the United Kingdom (11 December 1976) ; X. v. the United Kingdom (28 February 1979) ; X. v. the United Kingdom (13 May 1982) ; Polacco and Garofalo v. Italy ; Luksch v. Germany ). 32. The Court subsequently reiterated the compatibility y with Article 3 of Protocol No. 1 of the residence criterion . Such a restriction can be justified for a number of reasons :
    # first, the presumption that non -resident citizens are less directly or less continuously concerned by their country 's day -to-day problems and have less knowledge of them ;
    # second , the fact that candidates standing for election to parliament cannot so easily present the election issues to citizens living abroad, who will also have less influence on the selection of candidate es o r on the drafting of their manifestos ;
    # third , the close connection between the right to vote in parliamentary elections and the fact of being directly affected by the acts of the political bodies thus elected; and, Guide on Article 3 of Protocol No. 1 - Right to free elections
    # fourth , the legitimate concern the legislature may have to limit the influence of citizens living abroad in elections concerning issues which, while fundamental , primarily affect those living in the country
    All a load of obsolete old tosh, 1961 was decades before Internet cheap phone calls & satellite TV, & eg local radio political call in show over smart phone apps ! & Brexit impacts UK citizens in EU More than UK citizens in UK, not less!
  • 2016-11-03 BBC Brexit court defeat for UK government
    Ruling in full
    Gina Miller founded
  • 2016-12-08 BBC Last day of supreme court hearing. expecting the judgement in January
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2016-05-09 18:00 : 2ND MUNICH MEETING

Invitation To 2nd Munich Meeting:

Open meeting with the Consul

Host Arranger: Robert Harrison

MUC Brits and Brexit - Q&A with Paul Heardmann - Consul

Hosted by Robert Harrison facebook page Monday, May 9 at 6:00 PM - 9:00 PM in UTC+02

Hacker-Pschorr Bräuhaus München Theresienhöhe 7, 80337 Munich, Germany


After our meeting in March, a number of people had questions about the Referendum and the effect on UK citizens living in Munich and surrounding areas. Paul Heardmann, who is the Consul General in Munich, has kindly agreed to a Q and A session on 9 May at 18:00 in the Pschorr Brauhaus, Theresienhöhe.

He can talk about the British government's position and about voting rights for expatriates in general. Please bear in mind that his role in Germany and Bavaria is to present the government's view and to work for a solution that is good for the UK and its citizens in Germany, whatever the outcome of the Referendum. I'm sure that he will convey any concerns that back to London, but until the outcome of the Referendum, he will not be able to speculate about any outcomes.

We had a good turnout for the last meeting and I've booked a slightly larger room. The event is free of charge - the restaurant will charge for food and drink.

To give us some idea of numbers, please let us know whether you would like to come.

Rob's Facebook page has a discussion button, but no public access ... Facebook monopoly.

To help know how many seats are needed,
Please email ( Remove all '_' ! )

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NOTES FROM 2ND Munich MEETING 2016-05-09

A few friends couldn't make it & asked author for a report, rather than repeat by phone & over a beer etc, notes below.
Corrections Welcome

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Notes Of Meeting

  • author counted & recalls maybe 30 or so, maybe more were still arriving then. author thinks Rob counted more later ?
  • Vast majority by a show of hands (called by an audience member on Faraday table) could Not vote, been here too long, just a few could vote, about 4 or 5 maybe). Considerable resentment that we couldn't vote.
  • Most by far were edging toward retirement or retired, only very few were near young ... (There are lot of young British in Munich, not there though).
    Several lawyers in audience, Various EPO, Faraday, Berklix etc
  • Lots of concern to spread the word both in Munich & back home. Postcard size green flyers handed out promoting gov . uk / register - to - vote
  • Nearly all seemed in favour of UK remaining in EU.
  • Consul was introduced. He's been in Munich 4 years.
  • Consul spoke:
    • Promoting staying in EU, following the government line.
    • Asked if he should play it neutrally with a civil servant's straight bat, he did not feel the need, & was happy to promote the government line: Stay in EU.
    • Soon-ish [date?] Consul will be bound by purdah & must then remain neutral.
    • He gave a timetable of events (all verbal, nothing written, stuff like when his purdah starts). He said we have about a week to safely apply to vote.
    • He made no mention there's a great mass of British throughout EU seriously annoyed we're dis-franchised by 15 year rule;
    • No mention of law case to try to get us votes, until we asked about case, at which point 3 or more audience members informed us.
    • He knew by prior show of hands, how few of us could vote, as dis-franchised by his employer the UK government, but did Nothing to inform us to help overturning the wholesale dis-franchising of us, British citizens in Munich & Bavaria, (even though if we were enfranchised, the vast majority was inclined to vote per his government instructors).
    • Various members of audience seemed to think he wasn't casting much light on various topics he could have. A subset of those things were generally realised to be unforeseeable, & as he pointed out he's not on an expert on German Nationality procedure of course. Perhaps he'd be more forthcoming on trade, than our voting franchise & personal rights interests, but before the Chamber Of Commerce meeting he'll be into purdah so can't speak there.
  • A lot of concern about pensions, right to residence & work, & variety of other topics.
  • Some abstract discussion about some Vienna convention on citizens retaining right in event of ...
  • Some here (R.) are applying for German citizenship. Can't have dual German & other citizenship (said various people, but this author believes that is too simplistic, there are minor exceptions, can't remember, author recalls Jews & 2 other categories ? A German national (C.) told author after, if eg mother German & ... but most have to choose at 18 - however that's a matter of German law, not British law, French, Polish law etc.). Can have eg British & French dual.
  • There's a law case going through the courts, re us not being able to vote. Someone from Faraday/EPO long table by window handed author earlier papers. author showed to D. D told us all: result was/ would be today (same day as our meeting) Little chance of appeal succeeding.
  • One can renounce British citizenship irrevocably if one wants, but German constitution gives more protection .
  • EU treaty says 2 years if a country wants to leave. When starting ? Not specified. D. thought it would take far longer, & after 5 years UK might start to negotiate to re-enter EU.
  • Some inc. P
    . want to meet on election night as the results come in, preferably with a live news feed. (It was probably assumed TV would be nice, but a bar/ restaurant beer garden with an accessible WLAN for eg an Android tablet + a "Film on Live TV App" might choke on limited bandwidth - might be better to settle for an Android FM Radio App, or even just a high quality conventional radio, any of which this author could bring).
    That & other follow up Can be discussed on mail list.

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There were 5,949 British (3,654 male, 2,295 female) in Munich at 2015-12-31 (Source "Die ausländische Bevölkerung nach der Staatsangehörigkeit 2015 (Stand 31.12.) ).
Unknown how many will be blocked by the over 15 year lack of UK residence rule, not allowed to vote like children under 18.

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To Move Within Page



  1. Index
  2. European Union: European Free Movement Instrument
  3. A petition on

  4. Tourist & Residence Visas in Germany & EU
  5. Back To Top Of Page


europarl . europa . eu / sides / getDoc . do ? pubRef =-// EP // TEXT + PV + 20170405 + ITEM - 006 + DOC + XML + V0 // EN & language = EN
"Nigel Farage, on behalf of the EFDD Group (the President called the speaker to order for comments deemed injurious to the dignity of Parliament)" (The word Mafia retracted to Gangsters).
Evaluating EU Debts V Assets opens other cans of worms:
  • Precedent for other future EU joiners & leavers as effectively buying & selling shares in EU Ltd has not been done before, & with EU's long disputed lust for perpetual enlargement Eastward, small new economies might not afford to buy in to EU Ltd ?
  • Similar precedent with UK from EU, as for Scotland from UK : if it leaves, Who would pay who how much for a fair slice of EU / UK national debt versus assets ? Perhaps better Not present bills & not waste money on bean counters ? It's often said lawyers not partners win in acrimonious divorce disputes.
  • Organisers Ingrid & David:
  • A Meeting in Munich of maybe 50 ? or so British again, about 14? no shows so tables spare.
  • Chair: David, Speakers A chap from Vienna who will start a group there, Ingrid, & many others, (inc this author Julian).
  • Not in chronological order
  • All very dis-satisfied with Consul uttering copious Government soft soap not believed by anyone present. Various interjections on rubbish such as "EU keeping UK waiting", & "negotiations in good faith on both sides"
    (European negotiators probably somewhat wary of a delaying, chaotic British government, surviving on bribed Northern Ireland votes, claiming to represent a riven nation, that denies its citizens abroad votes, & threatens EU citizen rights in UK, thus imperilling UK citizen rights in EU.)
  • David mentioned, re. Government fumbling: it had been British foreign policy for 500 years to split & balance European forces. Britain has now managed the opposite: To unite Europe against Britain.
  • David volunteered he could contact authorities to investigate citizen status issues if only Consul would give him high level introductions instead of currently working bottom up. Consul ignored the offer.
  • Ingrid said organisers of citizens impacted by Brexit were self financing expenses, (particularly in Berlin), including expenses of visiting government in UK. No offer of help from UK government, Consul more than ignored that request for support, said they couldn't support political parties. Ignored we're from all political parties, this s apolitical, only thing in common is we're British, imperilled by Britain& deprived of right to constituency MPs to represent us.
  • Consul said he would _Not_ relay to London the depth of concerns & annoyance from the meeting, despite UK has deprived us of constituency MPs to represent us.
  • Consul said he was willing to come again.
  • Many other point were made by many other people, I don't have time to type, if you were there, post to the Mail List & I can mouse copy text or links.

  • After Formal End:
  • Numerous people observed, despite the Consul uttering government rubbish, most speakers had still articulated their disbelief, fears, & anger, in a very British under stated manner, while many other nationals would have reacted much more vigorously.
  • Many suspect the Consul will not present to London the full breadth as well as certainly not the depth of our problems, concerns, etc.
  • Is a Consul any benefit to us ?
    • This time (as last) nothing was learned, nothing solved, nothing gained from the Consul.
      However, we did learn from each other, so is a Consul merely useful as a PR catalyst, to draw extra audience ?
    • Is government purpose for consular attendance, merely to be seen to go through the motions, make an audience feel they've been listened to, but do Nothing, Not help, & provide Nothing ?
      (Not pure cynicism: To consult trade union representatives, with intent to do nothing after, is a technique this author first observed in junior management in his early 20s. - Repeats play less well to large audiences of professionals ;-).
    • Is a Consul best a mere mouthpiece of a floundering government of the day ?
    • Or do Consuls etc as long term civil servants bear a deeper duty to support citizens abroad who find themselves suddenly assailed by a mass of problems, (amazingly triggered not by foreign host countries, but by British government incompetence).
    • Consuls etc as civil servants are NOT political appointees to pander to politics of the day, unlike eg USA ambassadors appointed by a president.
    • When more stable British governments returns, career reviews may not be so rosey for civil servants that merely pandered to deposed politicians.
    • Could Consuls help Ex pats with Brexit impacts ? Many cynics say "Useless to us, just interested in promoting trade."
      Even such consuls would be foolish to refuse to warn London: British "Soft Power" degrades as British Ex Pats tell local foreign associates: Don't trust Britain! It stole our votes, scared British they might loose health treatment, scared us to apply for foreign citizenship; & scared EU citizens in UK too.
    • Tell the brexit@ mail list or a meeting announced on the brexit@ mail list, if you have ideas to protect Ex-Pats from the impacts of Brexit.
  • Plan next is to take a summer break for a couple of months, perhaps just another Brexit Group Beer Garden, without need for organisers to spend lots of time arranging. PS Brexit also gets discussed at meetings of Beer Gardeners & Faraday etc groups.

Future Possibilities & Probabilities :

  • Hard Brexit may erupt, after collapse of negotiations already way behind schedule expect trade, travel, & transport chaos. UK & EU politician will blame each other, irrelevantly, while many business & peoples suffer.
    See BBC's 14 October 2017 "Brexit: What would 'no deal' look like?"
  • UK tax haven users, if they sponsored Brexit media, will celebrate money well spent to evade new EU anti tax haven law.
  • UK Economic decline for a decade, (Global trade deals take far longer than two years to negotiate. It took the German economy longer to recover after acquiring moribund East Germany).
  • Young British in the UK will loose their right to easily work a couple of years on the continent, for career advancement & adventure, & will criticise the old fogies who blighted their careers, voting for Brexit.
  • British abroad will curse the Stolen Brexit Referendum that imperils their continued residence, work & life abroad in the EU.
  • The most dynamic workers may emigrate from the damaged UK, no longer to the EU, but further globally, with less incentive to return once the break from UK & Europe is achieved.
  • Masses of British might be forced home from EU (eg masses retired in Spain) back to live in the UK, burdening UK housing stocks & NHS, unless a Brexit deal is done.
  • Exposure of the Lie "We all had a vote - now we must live with it!" - 3.7 million were denied a vote - 700,000+ in Europe
  • Idiocy over-ruled: Those who deny British Abroad a vote.
  • Brexit campaign funding exposures: Tax haven evaders sponsoring Brexit to avoid the EU's 2019 anti tax haven law & maybe also sponsored by Putin's Russia (to weaken the West) ?
  • vote, stealing our democracy, may be over-ruled. The idiots who similarly said "I don't think we should give the Scots a vote on independence" were similarly over ruled. Idiots who steal democracy incite violent opposition & revolt.
  • Exposure as rogues, liars, etc, of some politicians abusing Britain for personal & party advantage, inc. supine MPs submitting to party whips rather than heeding conscience & duty to constituency & country: Traitors to Britain & democracy.
  • Self serving political leaders dumped.
  • Scotland / Wales / N. Ireland revolt to remain in EU ? Or London independence ? Declaring "London declares independence from the UK, (UDA, Rhodesia style) , & will operate as a city state like Singapore, & joining the EU [with Scotland], or co-operating with the EU, Norway style.
  • British of Internet generations will increasingly out vote the dieing old fogies of Empire.
  • Some Brexit advocates claim Brexit is final, but it is no more final than was the `finality. of The war to end war aka World War One ... followed by World War Two.
  • Britain may later choose or Need to rejoin the EU later, likely on worse terms than Brexit forces on us now, (eg loss of rebate, compulsory Euro for future members etc).

Article 50 can be extended

If European Council & UK agree.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. Council
comprises the heads of state or government of the EU member states, along with the President of the European Council and the President of the European Commission.
So UK + 27 + 2 EU would need to agree.
If both sides decide in last week[s], its in their mutual interest to stop the clock, they could. eg if hard Brexit looms, both sides forsee massive losses in disrupted trade & services, & UK also announces "As UK & EU are expected to fail to agree a deal by the deadline. UK will make No Leaving Payment to EU that was discussed in the rejected deal. Both sides should meet urgently to discuss per Art 50.3 If & how long negotiations might or should be prolonged." Realists both sides must know 2 years was too short to negotiate trade deals etc that usually take much longer, + both sides have behaved badly, & presumably know it, not just UK but EU too, eg with: Galileo


Electoral Commission:
Be cautious, distractions may arise from Brexit supporters sooner or later, In an era with:
  • Tweet bot flooding paid by political campaigners, fake likes, fake news.
  • USA senate hearings considering it was in Russia's interest to promote Brexit (whether Russia did, being a seperate issue)
  • Some newspaper owners have long ground their own financial axes
  • Some web sites can promote petitions on anything, collect addresses, &/or carry adverts, providing commercial incentive to promote divisive multiple petitions, which may promote them, but not us.,
    (Disclaimer: Owner of makes no money on domain, & won't)



A few places in this page have or had multiple links to same place, so they now indirect through this table
Top Of Page or Index

Russian Interference

Short Links That Have Been Used For Printing On Paper Letters

(So a paper letter recipient can type in something easer, not something ridiculously long with loads of numbers and symbols).

  UK firms out-sourcing welcome to seek contacts via author for relay to British professionals in Munich.
With militant extremists May & Corbin both pushing Brexit, better to listen to others, eg Vince Cable & others in the growing middle consensus of Conservative & Labour


Author welcomes corrections, especially with specific web reference URLS. No transient URLs to forum comment (aka tweets etc) that time expire, nor to text hidden behind passwords aka Fbook, just static public references.

AUTHOR Julian H. Stacey


Brexit Stolen Votes Berklix.Net Computer Associates Domains Apache: Web Server FreeBSD: Operating System